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September 25, 2013

Dear Reader,

Since apparently my guild drama makes for entertaining reading, I’m going to put off a post I’ve had in mind for a while – the Guild Counter-App, or what to ask a guild before you join – and continue my apparently unending series of guild drama.  In fact, things have heated up a bit since my last post, and not in a good way, though, again, none of this really has much to do with me (which is both a relief and a potential pile for me to step right in).

Monday night, after our last correspondence, the upset guild member did come online after raid time (which was irrelevant, because we had no raid, because there were no healers, perhaps – only perhaps – because they’d gotten raiding out of their system in the private raid the night before), and I was able to eventually work my magic and get her in the same room as an officer so they could talk.  The good news was the the officers – including the one I was unsure of – were unaware of what was going on with the calendar invites, confirmed that we were supposed to be holding our SoO normal lockouts for sanctioned guild runs, and essentially completely agreed with her point of view, even talking about how upset they also were, so she was quite happy – no, not happy.  Being left out doesn’t let people be happy, but let’s go with quite vindicated –  after the conversation.  More would be said on Wednesday to the whole guild, but for that moment, things seemed pretty smoothed over. I was very pleased by the excellent work by the officers involved.

Then came Tuesday.  On Tuesday nights, we have our unofficial “guild” LFRs.  You can come if you want or not, and it’s certainly not a requirement to run with the guild if you don’t want to.  Around that time, I logged on and chatted a bit with an officer who was asking me about what had come of the previous events.  He started invites and grabbed me into the raid right way, but even though there were between 15 and 20 people on, no one else seemed interested, which was odd, since this was a guild created event, not an officer created one.

As the actual start time approached, we were still the only two people in the raid.  Oh well, I figured, we’ll still go and do it.  He had hit up /gchat over and over, and I’d punctuated his with humorous pleas for help., and a few people had already done it, so fine.  But then, right before we queued, someone asked, “Wait, are you not in this LFR group?”

Well, that was very confusing.  Were there two groups?  The officer had asked about that in /gchat to make sure that wasn’t the case, but had gotten no response.  Okay, well, it must have been an oversight.  We dropped our group and jumped into the much larger raid group that had about 10 people in it.  In the meantime, a few other people had just logged on and expressed interest, and since no one in our group was responding and I had an assist, I scooped them up.

Then half the raid dropped, almost simultaneously.

Uh-oh, I thought.  This is the same thing happening as did Sunday, and this officer’s going to go bananas.

Which, in the long term, is essentially what happened.  Sure, there had to be some verification and whatnot in between, but it seems that the other LFR group had intentionally been being selective about who to bring to their LFR of all things, and officers and apparently a few others of us didn’t make the cut.  The officer then apologized for what was happening and switched vent rooms to – I assume, I didn’t go with him – ream the other group.  There will be more on that tonight, which I’m not looking forward to, but will report back to you nonetheless on Friday.

I’m not sure whether I was just unlucky and ended up with the officer or was being intentionally excluded.  Three of the people in the “elite” group – not including the “inadvertent” (quotes are to indicate I’m not sure it was an accident, and I want to believe it was not) whistle-blower – are people who I thought were friendly to me and who I previously had a lot of respect for.  Regardless of whether it was accidental or intentional exclusion, it didn’t feel too good, but fine; I’m new.  I get it.  Maybe I haven’t proven my chops yet.

But…  but there was another player in my group who I could tell was really hurt by the perceived (and likely real) exclusion.  She made some self-deprecating jokes along the lines of “I know I’m a bad rogue, but I’m not so bad I can’t do LFR,” which were to cloak that she was upset by what happened.  I tried to lighten the mood a little with “You’re not a bad rogue, you’re just a rogue; the bad is redundant!” and then transitioned to Cynwise’s report on class distribution to get away from the sad stuff, but of course there’s only so much I could do.

There was another officer still with us in the the vent channel, a non-native English speaker known for his stoicism and cool-headedness, and he was getting pretty vocal and upset about what was going on.  That, of course, brought the issue back to the forefront, so while we went into our own “loser” LFR (which was a loser LFR, but not because of any of us), people were a bit blue.

It wasn’t a good night.  We got into a group that was stuck on the last boss and remained stuck until our determination buff finally overcame the extremely poor play of other raiders who simply could or would not switch to adds and refrain from dpsing the boss during defensive stance phase.  We spent a good two hours grinding that same boss, waiting for replacement tanks, and grinding some more.  That, on top of the implication that we were somehow the “sub-par” group (even though one of the officers was blowing up the dps meter and the rest of us were in the top 6 of the raid’s dps), really took the jam out of a lot of our donuts.

We’ll see what happens tonight.  I truly hope the second-time new father doesn’t have to come back and lay down the law; he has and deserves other priorities right now.  I also hope it’s not just a slamfest of officers trashing the elite; as a teacher, I hate that kind of holistic lecture that’s really only directed at a few.  Additionally, I hope it’s not a nasty, name-calling contentious debate between the officers and the “elite” set.

But I’m not sure if it can go any other way.  It’s the Internet, after all.


Stubborn (and unhappily anxious)

12 Comments leave one →
  1. September 25, 2013 2:56 pm

    Yeeeesh, this doesn’t seem like it’s going to be a pleasant conversation. Hope it all works out for you guys and it definitely seems like some sort of clique is forming within the guild. Those normally work like parasites and implode the guild from the inside out.

  2. September 25, 2013 3:49 pm

    Sounds like a complete nightmare and really upsetting for all the people involved. Not a good position for you to be in. It’s depressing when this sort of thing happens & starts causing anxiety & stress. Guilds are meant to be places of support. Azeroth can be hostile enough. Hope it gets sorted with minimum drama.

  3. September 25, 2013 5:55 pm

    Oh wow guild cliques.. Sounds like you have some seriously high and mighty people in your guild, it’s a freaking lfr and for the guild, surely they’d welcome familiar faces over total randoms who could grief worse than anyone could, probably out of pure accident. Though, I totally sympathise. I’ve had similar experiences in my old guild, however most times there wasn’t any nasty exclusion.

  4. September 25, 2013 6:31 pm

    Seems there are divisions in the lines of thinking in that guild. Perhaps the guild should split at said divisions so the conflicting parties will no longer conflict?

  5. September 25, 2013 6:38 pm

    Also interested to know, are they dropping because of personal vendettas or simply because they think you/excluded people will slow them down in-game? If it is the latter then I’d just say “oh you’re right, so get out of this guild and go be l33t elsewhere.” [kick]

    Becomes more complicated for me if it is the former.

  6. September 26, 2013 1:56 am

    As I said in the previous post, so many red flags… It doesn’t matter if you’re new to the guild or not. When you’re in, you’re in. This isn’t the army where the new guys get hazed.

    Cliques can destroy guilds, and I hope those “elites” get a serious kick up their ass to bring them down to earth a bit. The fact that you have officers behind you is a good sign, at least.

  7. Beshara permalink
    September 26, 2013 9:56 am

    It’s good to see the officers are against this exclusion behavior. That bodes well for the guild as a whole.

  8. September 26, 2013 10:06 am

    I’m torn on this one. I think the guys who dropped from the LFR group fall somewhere between dicks and assholes (not a lot to separate ’em) but, as you mention in this post itself, your guild has no formal requirements to run LFR together and in fact allows players to NOT run in the guild run. If they choose to run as their own group of 10 then they’re ALLOWED to based on guild rules. They did absolutely nothing wrong, according to the guild rules. The policy ALLOWS cliques and I can’t see any way to penalize anyone in that group in any way for what they did. That it’s perceived as an issue tells me that the guild rules really do need a revision, though, it sounds like a significant number of guildies don’t seem to be on-board with the policies or the guild leadership didn’t recognize that the policies don’t actually match the guild expectations.

    I’d focus more on WHY they would somehow prefer to run with 15 random strangers than 10 other guildies and 5 random strangers. That boggles my mind. Either some in the excluded group are ridiculously bad (unlikely) or, what I’m leaning toward personally, there’s someone (or more than one) in the excluded group that they can’t stand to listen to in Vent and it’s easier for them to just exclude a larger portion of the guild so they don’t single anyone out. I’ve had players in my premade raid groups who I’ve had to put on mute for periods of time (one lasted 3 months because I wanted to strangle him every time he opened his mouth (and since he never shut up, it was basically always). He was a good player, I just couldn’t listen to the constant stream of bile he spewed in Vent. Apparently it only bothered me so I (publicly, they were all aware) muted him to avoid the issue. Life went on, bosses died). If I had the choice to just not run with those people, I’d absolutely take advantage of it.

    The only other idea I have is that they’d planned to invite some x-svr players into the raid and they needed the room for them. Yeah, I’m really stretching it here but it’s technically possible, although you’d think they’d communicate something like that.

    What does concern me is that the clique isn’t communicating the issue, at least not in a productive way… and that the officers can’t seem to do anything about that. Officers need to have actual power or there’s no point having them in that role.

    Regardless of whether it’s allowed or sanctioned or not, there will be a lot of hurt feelings happening as a result of this so it needs to be dealt with by those who are in a position to deal with it. I’m also sort of anticipating a future post where that group of 10 schedule their own raid again… I’d be very surprised if that doesn’t happen.

  9. Tiggi permalink
    September 26, 2013 12:36 pm

    Chances of this ending well are very low I’m sorry Stubborn we are pulling for you!

  10. Samus permalink
    September 26, 2013 5:45 pm

    Wow. I don’t know whether these people are just incredibly stupid or really hold a burning hatred for their fellow guildmates. I don’t know what they think of the “bad” guild members, but surely they are all leaps and bounds better than the stunning ineptitude you expect from a random LFR stranger.

    That means these people are willing to suffer through a more difficult raid simply to ensure they deny rewards from these fellow guild members. They also know that sometime in the future they will almost certainly need to rely on those same guild members they are trying to deny rewards from, so they are further screwing themselves in future raids as well.

    This is some seriously hateful stuff.

  11. September 27, 2013 8:08 am

    Man, exclusion makes me sick. And I’m totally amazed that these people had the audacity to drop right out of a group made up of the -same- guild members without a single word to communicate why.

    I mean, yeah, I’m sure we’ve all been part of guilds where there are a couple players who aren’t the brightest sparks in the world and I fully understand doing one’s best to avoid grouping up with them to improve one’s gaming experience if you must – but if you end up with ’em anyway, grin and effing bear it. There’s a human being on the other side of the monitor. Try and teach them and improve the quality of your future runs, not just walk the f–k away.

    Makes you wonder why they even remain as part of the guild if they can’t stand a good part of the people in it.

    On the bright side, at least your leadership is supportive and respectful of everyone. They’re going to have an unenviable management/diplomacy job in the next couple days, but here’s wishing things can get worked out somehow with proper communication.


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